Finding Truth In Yourself (Part 2)

Christina Elmer: 00:00:01

Hi, welcome to Living in Color, a podcast about uncovering your

Christina Elmer: 00:00:05

radiant self after losing your faith.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:08

I am your host, Christina Elmer.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:10

I'm so delighted you found us.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:13

Hi, thank you so much for listening to the first part of Marcos's story.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:19

Before we jump into part two, I wanted to personally express my thanks to

Christina Elmer: 00:00:24

everyone who supported the podcast in every which way that they could.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:29

I am so incredibly grateful.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:31

Thank you.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:33

Now, please join me for part two of Marcos's incredible story.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:39

The thing about, that's interesting being a Mormon and having a friend that

Christina Elmer: 00:00:43

you know might be gay, but it hasn't officially come out to you and you don't

Christina Elmer: 00:00:49

obviously want to make assumptions.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:50

cause we're taught, you know, love the sin, the sinner, not the sin.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:53

And it's hard to navigate that.

Christina Elmer: 00:00:55

And I remember looking back thinking, oh God, I, I love Marcos But

Christina Elmer: 00:01:01

how do I really truly love him?

Christina Elmer: 00:01:02

You know, like how can I come, come to a space where And that's, that

Christina Elmer: 00:01:08

was an interesting journey for me.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:09

Like I was thinking about something that I said to you once, and I was

Christina Elmer: 00:01:13

like, don't get married on my birthday.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:15

Do you remember that?

Christina Elmer: 00:01:16

We were texting and I think it was just like Prop Eight was like such a

Christina Elmer: 00:01:19

huge deal at that time in California, you know, and I look back on that

Christina Elmer: 00:01:23

with a little bit of shame, like, who the fuck did I think I was?

Christina Elmer: 00:01:27

Like, he should be able to do whatever you want.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:29

It was just the Mormon side of me.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:30

And like, um, my fiance and I talk.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:33

about this sometimes because he's also ex Mormon and we've talked about like the

Christina Elmer: 00:01:37

shit that we've said when we were Mormon.

Christina Elmer: 00:01:39

And my sister who left the church way before me like likes to laugh about some

Christina Elmer: 00:01:43

of the things I said to her while I was a Mormon and just a little bit shameful just

Christina Elmer: 00:01:50

like oh I wasn't like you know but you're only just leading from a space of your own

Christina Elmer: 00:01:54

understanding in that moment, like I...

Marcos: 00:01:56

Right,

Christina Elmer: 00:01:57

like once I was able to look beyond myself and look beyond what

Christina Elmer: 00:02:02

I had been taught for so long that I was able to actually fully, truly love people

Christina Elmer: 00:02:07

and really have that understanding, as you said, that like when you were, you

Christina Elmer: 00:02:12

know, learning about the Lamanites and really just understanding that, can create

Christina Elmer: 00:02:17

your own story from your own experience.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:21

I feel like once I I got to a space where I'm like, okay, I can actually understand

Christina Elmer: 00:02:27

what Jesus is trying to teach me.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:29

You know, that I just really just love people.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:31

I don't need to bring in anything about how they identify

Christina Elmer: 00:02:35

or who they love or anything.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:37

And, but it's a process because we're not, we're not taught that.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:40

I feel like, um, the kids that are being born our own kids or

Christina Elmer: 00:02:45

our nieces and nephews are at a higher advantage than we ever were.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:49

Because we grew up with parents who, I don't know if your family

Christina Elmer: 00:02:53

was like this, but we didn't talk about a lot of things in our home.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:56

Like, and we didn't know how to have conversations, tough conversations.

Christina Elmer: 00:02:58

And I feel like the children that I'm raising today, hopefully will be able

Christina Elmer: 00:03:02

to have more empathy and be able to have tough conversations with their friends.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:06

Like, you know, if they have a friend that's navigating, if we want to call

Christina Elmer: 00:03:10

it this, I don't even know if it's the right term, but you know, a crisis of

Christina Elmer: 00:03:14

sexual identity or even personal identity.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:17

How do you come

Marcos: 00:03:18

mm hmm,

Christina Elmer: 00:03:19

truthfully and like empathetically,

Christina Elmer: 00:03:21

like how, how can I love you?

Christina Elmer: 00:03:23

What are you needing?

Christina Elmer: 00:03:25

You know, I feel like we're, we're much more equipped now with the tools.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:30

As you and I have grown, like we're going to look into this a little bit

Christina Elmer: 00:03:33

more, but about, you know, things that have helped you heal, and to become the

Christina Elmer: 00:03:38

person, obviously that experience in your 20s has brought you to the amazing,

Christina Elmer: 00:03:44

well rounded, empathetic, kind human.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:47

But I, I feel like you were already a lot of those things when we met at BYU.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:51

Like, there was just something really, like, I craved being

Christina Elmer: 00:03:56

around you when we were in school.

Christina Elmer: 00:03:58

Like, and I was thinking about, like, how we met and we met

Christina Elmer: 00:04:01

through my roommate, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:04:04

Because she was also very involved in the multicultural, um, stuff with BYU.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:07

And

Marcos: 00:04:09

Yes,

Christina Elmer: 00:04:09

I

Marcos: 00:04:09

And we had met,

Christina Elmer: 00:04:10

really wasn't, yes.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:12

And I really wasn't.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:13

I feel like that, I really missed out on a lot with that.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:15

But...

Christina Elmer: 00:04:16

that relationship with my roommate, that was kind of funny.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:18

We've talked about it before, but like, I'm really truly grateful for

Christina Elmer: 00:04:24

her bringing you into my life and the people that I met through you.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:29

There was just something about your energy and like, you know, I have the

Christina Elmer: 00:04:33

belief now, and if we take Mormonism out of it, you know, I do believe

Christina Elmer: 00:04:36

that souls have, you know, different iterations of a lifetime, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:04:42

And, um, we have different lifetimes, whether in the Mormon sense we think about

Christina Elmer: 00:04:46

meeting in heaven in the pre existence.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:48

But, you know, my belief has evolved to that.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:51

I've, everyone that I've met in this lifetime, I've met in a previous one.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:54

And, you know, you just don't know who you're going to meet and

Christina Elmer: 00:04:57

when you're going to meet them and how they impact your life.

Christina Elmer: 00:04:59

And, I want to thank you for giving me, just a beautiful insight into, a life,

Christina Elmer: 00:05:11

you know, and just like you sharing your, your story with me here today.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:16

And cause I don't, we've not actually just sat and talked a whole lot about,

Christina Elmer: 00:05:22

the, the difficulty that went through, that you went through in your twenties.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:25

And I've always just seen this beautiful side to you and it's still there.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:31

And I just, it's gotten more expansive and If I want to use the term glorious,

Christina Elmer: 00:05:37

that's, that's coming to mind.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:38

I just, you're just so full of light and your empathy just like

Christina Elmer: 00:05:43

seeps out of every part of your body and just your love for humans.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:47

And it speaks to the experience that you went through that you

Christina Elmer: 00:05:51

were able to really take strength.

Christina Elmer: 00:05:54

Like you had the strength in you and now it's just like made you into this like

Christina Elmer: 00:05:58

superhuman And I feel like the work that you're doing now with engaging with the

Christina Elmer: 00:06:04

Chicano community and advocacy, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:06:07

I feel like the work that you're doing now is you know, you're aligning with

Christina Elmer: 00:06:13

what you're wanting and I feel like that has not come just by, by chance.

Christina Elmer: 00:06:20

I feel like it's something that you were meant to do and meant to be.

Marcos: 00:06:25

Thank you

Christina Elmer: 00:06:26

That's a very beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:06:27

No, absolutely.

Christina Elmer: 00:06:29

Yeah, can we talk a little bit about, you know, so after your 20s and you

Christina Elmer: 00:06:35

know, you had the support of the person that you were partnered with

Christina Elmer: 00:06:39

at the time and their family and Can you speak to any other experiences or

Christina Elmer: 00:06:45

people, things that really aided in your becoming who you are today as a human

Christina Elmer: 00:06:53

and also, um, what's your relationship with Mormonism not so much Mormonism,

Christina Elmer: 00:06:59

but maybe just in with religion or

Marcos: 00:07:02

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:07:02

Okay.

Marcos: 00:07:03

Yeah, totally.

Marcos: 00:07:05

See some things that really helped me to kind of come into my own and

Marcos: 00:07:09

help just me survive or thrive one was, honestly concentrating on work

Marcos: 00:07:14

at the time was really helpful.

Marcos: 00:07:16

And concentrating on work, concentrating on school, um, because I ended up, because

Marcos: 00:07:21

of my detour from BYU, I, I took two different paths for school, and so working

Marcos: 00:07:26

on that, um, it was really good, I don't want to say distraction, because it was my

Marcos: 00:07:30

life, but it ended up being a distraction from some of the more challenging parts.

Marcos: 00:07:34

And just focus on the challenges of work and being a student and

Marcos: 00:07:39

balancing that with a relationship, just everyday life, right?

Marcos: 00:07:42

Um, that kind of dominated and distracted, so that was helpful.

Marcos: 00:07:48

And then when there was free time, you know, having the support system of

Marcos: 00:07:52

friends and family that I was, I had slowly opened up to or had in my life.

Marcos: 00:07:56

I was still very selective on who I would tell because I hadn't

Marcos: 00:08:00

talked to my family about it yet.

Marcos: 00:08:02

So that's why, that's the main reason why I delayed on like

Marcos: 00:08:06

being fully open with everyone.

Marcos: 00:08:08

Because I didn't want that to get back to my family.

Marcos: 00:08:11

Um, because I kind of learned the hard way with that.

Marcos: 00:08:13

So the support system was helpful just focusing on my own goals and my own life.

Marcos: 00:08:19

I remember at that time I would pray every day to try to be a good person

Marcos: 00:08:24

in what I would do, um, and to do a good job, whatever I was doing.

Marcos: 00:08:28

And that helped give me a sense of peace and kind of helped give me

Marcos: 00:08:31

some direction that was very helpful.

Marcos: 00:08:34

Yeah, so I mean, those are very simple things, but honestly, it's what really

Marcos: 00:08:37

helped me just really focusing on focusing on in my own lane because it's so easy

Marcos: 00:08:42

to, I make a lot of analogies with like driving and like streets and freeways.

Marcos: 00:08:49

I guess so much of your life in California is driving in the car.

Marcos: 00:08:52

And

Christina Elmer: 00:08:52

Yes!

Marcos: 00:08:52

Um, so it's so easy to focus on like the lane next to you, right?

Marcos: 00:08:57

Or who's coming in the opposite direction, but you focus so much on that, you're

Marcos: 00:09:01

going to veer off out of your lane, right?

Marcos: 00:09:03

And so if you focus on yourself and focus on your life while still paying

Marcos: 00:09:07

attention and being mindful what's going around you and letting people

Marcos: 00:09:11

in when it's safe to do so, right, then that is what works best for me.

Marcos: 00:09:16

Because I have noticed in moments where I get too caught up in what other people

Marcos: 00:09:19

are doing and other people's lives or what's coming my way from other

Marcos: 00:09:22

people, it puts me in a space I don't like being in and I need to kind of

Marcos: 00:09:27

check myself in those moments, right?

Marcos: 00:09:29

And just focus on yourself, try to tune out the noise.

Marcos: 00:09:32

Um, tune out the distractions.

Marcos: 00:09:34

Um, so things like that were really helpful to me.

Marcos: 00:09:36

But I was very thankful for the support and love that I did have my life.

Marcos: 00:09:40

And really reflecting on my life in general, specifically adulthood,

Marcos: 00:09:45

like I am so truly grateful for the love that I have had.

Marcos: 00:09:49

So present day and past.

Marcos: 00:09:52

You know, after my previous, um, boyfriend long term relationship after we ended,

Marcos: 00:09:58

um, I knew when, when the day would come when I would start something new, which

Marcos: 00:10:03

I didn't know when that would happen.

Marcos: 00:10:05

Um, I hope it would happen again, but when it did happen, I was, I knew I

Marcos: 00:10:09

had to do it differently this time.

Christina Elmer: 00:10:11

Mm.

Marcos: 00:10:12

I knew that immediately I have to do it differently this time.

Marcos: 00:10:15

So whether we, with having conversations with my family, you know, certain

Marcos: 00:10:21

things I have to do differently.

Marcos: 00:10:23

Um, so when I met my now husband, um, I was more in a state

Marcos: 00:10:29

where I was ready to do that.

Marcos: 00:10:31

And that's when it started changing for me and being more open to

Marcos: 00:10:36

the world, to the masses, um, of, basically, this is just who I am.

Marcos: 00:10:41

And, um, I didn't really care as much what anyone thought about it.

Marcos: 00:10:46

And because before we started our, my previous relationship,

Marcos: 00:10:50

we started very young.

Marcos: 00:10:52

And we endured all of our young adulthood together and all

Marcos: 00:10:55

those ups and downs of that.

Marcos: 00:10:56

And we really helped each other get through those things.

Marcos: 00:10:59

So we did what worked for us in the situation.

Marcos: 00:11:02

And where we were at was our lives.

Marcos: 00:11:05

And then now I knew some things had to be different.

Marcos: 00:11:08

So, um, it really gave me a lot of courage after that.

Marcos: 00:11:12

Um, that unfortunately I wasn't able to give my previous relationship.

Marcos: 00:11:17

Um, because of societal and at the time church things at time and

Marcos: 00:11:22

familial factors that were in place.

Marcos: 00:11:25

So I wasn't able to do that.

Marcos: 00:11:27

And that's something that I have apologized for.

Christina Elmer: 00:11:30

Mm,

Marcos: 00:11:31

But I was so thankful I was able to then do that with my now husband

Marcos: 00:11:35

and that we were able to navigate from a different space, um, while

Marcos: 00:11:39

taking the strength from the past and the knowledge I gained and insight.

Marcos: 00:11:43

But now being able to apply that, um, in my marriage, um, has

Marcos: 00:11:49

been, has been very rewarding.

Marcos: 00:11:51

And it's funny because when people want, you know, oftentimes society or, um,

Marcos: 00:11:57

naysayers don't see the point before...

Marcos: 00:12:01

when marriage when same sex marriage first became legalized in the whole country,

Marcos: 00:12:06

there were some people against that.

Marcos: 00:12:07

Now there's a lot less because it's become more normalized But I remember

Marcos: 00:12:11

at that time when my husband and I were shopping for our wedding planning

Marcos: 00:12:17

our wedding is the most validation I've ever felt being a gay man.

Marcos: 00:12:23

And it's something that's so unfortunate and sad because it shouldn't have

Marcos: 00:12:27

to take that to experience that.

Marcos: 00:12:29

But it was when actually people, you could actually converse without,

Marcos: 00:12:33

you know, someone wincing or, you have to hire them for something

Marcos: 00:12:37

for it, that it's just normalized.

Marcos: 00:12:40

And I never have felt that before, even though I should.

Christina Elmer: 00:12:43

Mm,

Marcos: 00:12:44

And so that felt very nice.

Marcos: 00:12:47

Um, no, you don't necessarily need external validation, but

Marcos: 00:12:51

it felt nice to have that almost like for once, one of the very few

Marcos: 00:12:55

times, um, and in a public sphere.

Marcos: 00:12:58

So it felt, it felt nice.

Marcos: 00:13:01

I felt very nice.

Marcos: 00:13:03

And it really do think once we, even before we got married, I felt courage

Marcos: 00:13:08

because Pulse, the Pulse shootings happened right around the same time when

Marcos: 00:13:15

my husband and I first were like, became official and we're getting, we're now,

Marcos: 00:13:18

you know, a couple and, and along our journey and the whole shooting happened.

Marcos: 00:13:23

And I just realized the first time I specifically posted on social media,

Marcos: 00:13:30

about specifically being a gay person.

Marcos: 00:13:33

Before there were like, you know, alluding to things, or there had been like a

Marcos: 00:13:36

photo but with no explanation, never said it, no relationship status, anything.

Marcos: 00:13:41

And it was at this moment where I specifically said it.

Marcos: 00:13:45

Um, I assumed most knew already, but I still didn't say it.

Marcos: 00:13:49

So you don't 100 percent know.

Marcos: 00:13:51

And at that point, I'm like, if people are literally dying for this,

Marcos: 00:13:55

I need to not let anything stop me from being vocal about who I am.

Marcos: 00:14:00

Because these were primarily LGBTQ people of color, specifically,

Marcos: 00:14:05

you know, primarily Latinos.

Marcos: 00:14:07

And it was like, I can't just sit back.

Marcos: 00:14:10

And I know not, posting about it is not necessarily too much action,

Marcos: 00:14:14

however, it was still something that meant something to me as an

Christina Elmer: 00:14:17

yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:14:18

For sure.

Marcos: 00:14:19

And then I, I felt very grateful that, I think it was five

Marcos: 00:14:24

years after the shootings, um, they had a, like a charity walk for it and

Marcos: 00:14:31

I was able to participate in that.

Marcos: 00:14:32

It was a virtual one.

Marcos: 00:14:33

And so it felt very full circle for me.

Marcos: 00:14:36

And, you know, it was in pandemic shape, pandemic.

Marcos: 00:14:40

I forced myself through those three miles because it meant so much.

Christina Elmer: 00:14:46

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:14:47

much.

Marcos: 00:14:48

Um, so that was just little things and hearing from other people's

Marcos: 00:14:51

strength, other people's stories.

Marcos: 00:14:52

Also, too, educationally, my educational pursuits really helped me, because

Marcos: 00:14:58

prior to coming out to my parents, um, my primary identity was my ethnicity.

Marcos: 00:15:05

That was something that I was very vocal about still, um, but I, you

Marcos: 00:15:09

know, the whole gay factor, the whole queer factor, the LGBTQ factor was

Marcos: 00:15:12

more like, very selective about it.

Marcos: 00:15:15

But through my classes and my major and courses, I was able

Marcos: 00:15:20

to see you don't have to choose.

Marcos: 00:15:22

You know what I mean?

Marcos: 00:15:23

You could be both.

Marcos: 00:15:24

They're both part of who you are.

Marcos: 00:15:26

And intersectionality was very much, intersectionality was very much

Marcos: 00:15:30

emphasized within my studies that it really helped me as an individual to

Marcos: 00:15:35

challenge myself and to learn and develop.

Marcos: 00:15:37

Um, so I'm very thankful for that.

Marcos: 00:15:39

And when I finished my bachelor's, it was before like social justice became

Marcos: 00:15:45

like a fad and a trend and normalized.

Marcos: 00:15:47

So I'm very, I'm very glad that I had that experience when I did, because it

Marcos: 00:15:54

really helped equip me for my future.

Marcos: 00:15:57

Um, so I'm very, very Thankful for that.

Marcos: 00:16:00

And I had such amazing faculty and staff who were so supportive of me.

Marcos: 00:16:04

And it was around the same time that I had the official talk

Marcos: 00:16:07

with my family, with my parents.

Christina Elmer: 00:16:09

Mm.

Marcos: 00:16:10

So having them as support, um, when I did have a hard time with certain

Marcos: 00:16:16

things, and just figuring out so many things now as an adult learner, non

Marcos: 00:16:20

traditional student, balancing it all.

Marcos: 00:16:23

I'm so thankful that I have people in my corner to help support me.

Marcos: 00:16:27

So I'm just very, very lucky for the love that I've had, um, both

Marcos: 00:16:31

romantically, you know, platonically and just professionally as well.

Marcos: 00:16:36

I'm just so

Christina Elmer: 00:16:37

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:16:38

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:16:39

Oh, I, I love that.

Christina Elmer: 00:16:41

Um, you know, through this process of leaving or, not leaving Mormonism, but

Christina Elmer: 00:16:46

like finding yourself outside of the confines of Mormonism, that you were

Christina Elmer: 00:16:53

still able to find community in a sense.

Christina Elmer: 00:16:55

And what a beautiful gift from your first partnership, you know, as

Christina Elmer: 00:17:00

you're navigating being a gay man, you know, trying to figure that out.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:05

And what a beautiful gift that they gave you to say, I understand

Christina Elmer: 00:17:10

that this is difficult and that they sat with you in that space.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:14

But also how amazing of you to come back, you know, later and say, you know, I'm

Christina Elmer: 00:17:19

sorry that I wasn't able to do that.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:21

Maybe I'm wrong in that, but I feel like it was a gift from them.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:26

Because they didn't push you to then, you know, say, because you know, they

Christina Elmer: 00:17:29

could have, could have gone differently.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:31

But I love that they were so supportive of you and the journey and really

Christina Elmer: 00:17:35

understanding your need at that time and just then gave you the safe

Christina Elmer: 00:17:41

space to then eventually branch out and you know, then come into your

Christina Elmer: 00:17:46

own when you were ready to do it.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:47

But that they held the container for you to do that.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:50

And I think that is so beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:53

And then you went on to get your degree.

Christina Elmer: 00:17:56

And could you tell us what your, your degree is in?

Marcos: 00:17:58

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:17:59

Um, so my bachelor's was in, um, Chicano studies And my master's

Marcos: 00:18:05

is indigenous people's law.

Marcos: 00:18:07

So both, ethnic studies related, Um, just different aspects and, you know,

Marcos: 00:18:13

different areas and different groups.

Marcos: 00:18:14

But, um, it's very much something that interests me and fuels me.

Christina Elmer: 00:18:18

And I love that you were called in that direction because you

Christina Elmer: 00:18:20

started out at BYU as a communications major and that you found that through

Christina Elmer: 00:18:26

this journey in your twenties you know, you came into your identity as

Christina Elmer: 00:18:29

a Chicano man and Latino man and you, chose that as your study, but then

Christina Elmer: 00:18:35

you found community in that, you know.

Christina Elmer: 00:18:38

And it's beautiful because I, for a lot of people leaving religious systems and

Christina Elmer: 00:18:44

religious beliefs, often the biggest thing that they lose is community, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:18:49

and so being able to find that in a form that ties you further into

Christina Elmer: 00:18:55

your identity, your family history, your culture, that's so incredible.

Christina Elmer: 00:19:01

Just starting out with, you know.

Christina Elmer: 00:19:03

Here we are in Mormonism and we're, you're being taught that your brown skin is,

Marcos: 00:19:08

A curse, essentially.

Marcos: 00:19:10

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:19:10

It's a curse.

Christina Elmer: 00:19:11

And then to now like years, you know, decades later and just really finding

Christina Elmer: 00:19:16

beauty in who you are and sharing that and, that is so beautiful,

Marcos: 00:19:24

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:19:24

No, you're right.

Marcos: 00:19:25

You're right.

Marcos: 00:19:25

I'm so thankful.

Marcos: 00:19:26

I'm so grateful that that happened.

Marcos: 00:19:29

And then I had my segue in education.

Marcos: 00:19:31

Um.

Marcos: 00:19:33

Because I was planning on still keeping communications and like double majoring.

Marcos: 00:19:38

Just, you know, I'm like, I just to have his extra background and who knows,

Marcos: 00:19:41

maybe one day I will seek a degree in that just to pay homage to past Marcos.

Marcos: 00:19:47

Um,

Christina Elmer: 00:19:49

I remember sitting in, I remember sitting in comms 101

Christina Elmer: 00:19:52

with you and it just was like, it was, it was almost a joke of a class.

Christina Elmer: 00:19:57

Like, I still have like doodles that we did because the

Christina Elmer: 00:20:01

class was just so ridiculous.

Christina Elmer: 00:20:04

So good for you for sticking with it.

Christina Elmer: 00:20:06

I obviously didn't, but you know.

Marcos: 00:20:09

Yeah, it's just interesting how it works.

Marcos: 00:20:11

You know, when I went back to school, I was now a working adult, still very

Marcos: 00:20:14

young and still, you know, barely still college age, but I related

Marcos: 00:20:18

more to the older adults in my class.

Marcos: 00:20:20

I was taking night classes at the time.

Marcos: 00:20:23

I was, you know, 22.

Marcos: 00:20:24

I felt more I was bonding with people 10 years older than me.

Marcos: 00:20:28

And, um, when I was doing like the on camera work, I just wasn't

Marcos: 00:20:32

feeling it anymore at the time.

Marcos: 00:20:35

And I liked the more behind the scenes at the time and

Marcos: 00:20:37

editing and the creation aspect.

Marcos: 00:20:40

Um, so I was like okay maybe I'll just double major.

Marcos: 00:20:42

And then as time went on, like, you know, that's not going to work out.

Marcos: 00:20:45

But I knew for sure I had to do Chicano studies.

Marcos: 00:20:48

I took a class and it was a sociology class, and this class was

Marcos: 00:20:53

like life changing, to be honest, and the professor was amazing.

Marcos: 00:20:57

The class, the course content was great, but it was a field trip we went on.

Marcos: 00:21:02

She was very open to like what students wanted.

Marcos: 00:21:06

And she's like, we should go somewhere.

Marcos: 00:21:08

And, uh, it was also like an afternoon evening course and, there was, you know,

Marcos: 00:21:15

Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead.

Marcos: 00:21:17

And this is before that, too, became much more well known and now very mainstream.

Marcos: 00:21:24

And I had never heard of it before.

Marcos: 00:21:26

I had never celebrated it before, even though that was from my culture.

Marcos: 00:21:29

My family didn't celebrate it, at least the generations that I've been

Marcos: 00:21:33

alive, they didn't celebrate it.

Marcos: 00:21:35

And there was, uh, an event at a local art center that has had been doing these

Marcos: 00:21:43

celebrations for a long time, for decades.

Marcos: 00:21:47

And when we went, that's where I truly felt like where I found

Marcos: 00:21:51

my people was at this event.

Christina Elmer: 00:21:54

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:21:55

Just because there was art minded, there was focus on

Marcos: 00:21:57

indigeneity, there were, um, you know, obviously queer people there.

Marcos: 00:22:02

All celebrating our culture, our history, ancestors, and our, and our families.

Marcos: 00:22:08

I just found it so beautiful.

Marcos: 00:22:10

And that's truly where I felt like I, this is where I belong.

Marcos: 00:22:14

And that kind of like set the stage for what I changed my studies to.

Christina Elmer: 00:22:20

Yeah, I love that.

Christina Elmer: 00:22:22

Was there that option for Chicano studies at BYU?

Christina Elmer: 00:22:25

I know that they had like Asian, like they had their International Studies

Christina Elmer: 00:22:29

program because I actually was looking into getting like my degree in Asian

Christina Elmer: 00:22:32

studies, but did they have anything like that at BYU when you were there or.

Marcos: 00:22:37

BYU tend, they tend to be more focused on people and subjects

Marcos: 00:22:43

from abroad then they are about people of color within this country.

Christina Elmer: 00:22:47

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:22:48

In my experience, even at the time we were there, if I looked

Marcos: 00:22:52

at the stats right, they had more international students than they did

Marcos: 00:22:55

students of color from the United States.

Marcos: 00:22:57

Um, so that's definitely interesting.

Marcos: 00:23:01

But they don't have a Japan studies program.

Marcos: 00:23:03

They do have a Latin American studies program.

Marcos: 00:23:05

Um, I'm not sure if they do incorporate some courses, uh,

Marcos: 00:23:10

about the United States or not.

Marcos: 00:23:11

Um, but they did definitely last time I looked, they

Marcos: 00:23:13

don't have anything like that.

Marcos: 00:23:15

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:23:15

So I'm so thankful that my pathway did lead me to something

Marcos: 00:23:18

different because yeah, had I stayed at BYU, it wouldn't have

Christina Elmer: 00:23:21

That's what I was going to say.

Christina Elmer: 00:23:23

Your time at BYU was necessary to then get you onto this trajectory,

Christina Elmer: 00:23:28

this path of where you are now.

Christina Elmer: 00:23:30

And, it's all so unexpected, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:23:33

Like you said, you have a map for your life, you have something planned out, this

Christina Elmer: 00:23:36

is the way it's supposed to go, and then.

Christina Elmer: 00:23:38

Sometimes it's disheartening for folks when it doesn't go according

Christina Elmer: 00:23:42

to their plan, especially like...

Christina Elmer: 00:23:44

we can talk about this within Mormonism.

Christina Elmer: 00:23:46

There's something called the patriarchal blessing, which is essentially just like

Christina Elmer: 00:23:49

a prescription for your life that's given by a man that, claims to hold power from

Christina Elmer: 00:23:55

God to give you inspiration as to what you are supposed to do with your life.

Christina Elmer: 00:24:00

And granted, you have a conversation with the person before they give

Christina Elmer: 00:24:03

you this, it's called a blessing.

Christina Elmer: 00:24:06

but it's just interesting because sometimes we hold, I knew that I held

Christina Elmer: 00:24:10

so deeply to it because mine talked, you know, about like connecting with

Christina Elmer: 00:24:13

ancestors, which, you know, I was already kind of called to do, but just,

Christina Elmer: 00:24:19

you know, had to do with things like music, which I'm not doing anything

Christina Elmer: 00:24:22

with music now, you know, but that's what I was like very involved in.

Christina Elmer: 00:24:25

And so it was kind of hard to remove myself from that and understand that I

Christina Elmer: 00:24:31

get to create a life of my own, and I feel like you've done that for yourself.

Christina Elmer: 00:24:35

You said this is, this isn't working out, and yet it's difficult, and I have

Christina Elmer: 00:24:40

to hide so many parts of myself, but I'm just gonna fucking do it, and that is

Christina Elmer: 00:24:47

just like full on badassery right there, and just like speaks to the strength,

Christina Elmer: 00:24:53

whether you were taught that in your home and given to that by your parents

Christina Elmer: 00:24:57

or just you were came into this world that your soul was just like this is

Christina Elmer: 00:25:02

what I meant to do and you followed...

Christina Elmer: 00:25:04

you followed your bliss and I just I think that is just so amazing.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:09

And it's not an easy thing to do for sure But just hearing your story and

Christina Elmer: 00:25:15

how you've gotten to where you are is just like yeah, that's amazing.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:21

And just like, you know, the little even just like the small little

Christina Elmer: 00:25:24

pivots that you've made, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:25:27

Trying out a relationship with a man and then, you know, that that evolved

Christina Elmer: 00:25:30

into something else and figuring out, oh, I want something more.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:33

And then figuring that out and coming into that.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:36

And now you have a beautiful relationship with a wonderful man and you have this

Christina Elmer: 00:25:41

beautiful life that you guys have created for yourselves, that no one else has

Christina Elmer: 00:25:45

said, this is how you have to do it.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:47

You've, you guys sat down and you guys wanted.

Christina Elmer: 00:25:50

For your life, and I think that it's difficult to do that, but once you

Christina Elmer: 00:25:55

get on the path, there's almost, I don't know if you felt this way, um,

Christina Elmer: 00:26:00

coming into where you are now, but once you start, you almost can't stop,

Christina Elmer: 00:26:04

you know, like when you're on the path of self discovery and finding

Christina Elmer: 00:26:07

out who you are, it's hard to stop.

Christina Elmer: 00:26:09

It's almost like your soul is calling you to move into that space and you, if you

Christina Elmer: 00:26:14

stop, it's almost to a disservice and,

Marcos: 00:26:16

that's true.

Marcos: 00:26:17

That's a good point.

Marcos: 00:26:18

This kind of goes back to your previous question, too, about my thoughts

Marcos: 00:26:21

about, like, spirituality or, you know, and or religion now, and that's

Marcos: 00:26:25

something that's really worked for me.

Marcos: 00:26:26

It's, you know, I remember being a, you know, a young Mormon person,

Marcos: 00:26:31

and I wasn't extra zealous by any means, but it did matter a lot to me.

Marcos: 00:26:36

And I did find it harder that you can't really, there were some things

Marcos: 00:26:40

about you can't pick and choose.

Marcos: 00:26:42

You just are either all in or you're all out.

Marcos: 00:26:44

For the

Christina Elmer: 00:26:45

yeah, For sure.

Christina Elmer: 00:26:47

Yeah, you can't be a cafeteria Mormon, where you just go like to a buffet

Christina Elmer: 00:26:50

and just like pick and choose parts of it, you know, to stay in, like,

Christina Elmer: 00:26:53

it's very, it's somewhat restrictive.

Christina Elmer: 00:26:55

Like some people can stay in, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:26:59

I can also think it's speaks to whoever your current patriarchal or the

Christina Elmer: 00:27:04

parochial leader is in your congregation.

Christina Elmer: 00:27:07

There has to be a little bit of leeway with that,

Marcos: 00:27:09

It reminds me, real quick, I'm going to segue real quick.

Marcos: 00:27:11

It reminds me of what you just said.

Marcos: 00:27:12

There was an incident, uh, instance at BYU, I remember, in

Marcos: 00:27:15

the, in the Wilkes, in the Wilkes

Christina Elmer: 00:27:18

Yes,

Marcos: 00:27:19

Yes, at the Wilkes, having,

Christina Elmer: 00:27:21

the student center.

Marcos: 00:27:23

having,

Christina Elmer: 00:27:24

those of you who are not familiar with bYU terms,

Christina Elmer: 00:27:27

the Wilkinson Center, it's okay.

Christina Elmer: 00:27:29

It's all

Marcos: 00:27:29

having dinner, um, with a couple people, and one of the individuals who

Marcos: 00:27:35

I was not close with, but we were part of the same organization at the time.

Marcos: 00:27:39

And he prayed, externally, visibly prayed you know, over his food, and I didn't.

Marcos: 00:27:45

If I do it in public, I'm going to say it to myself, and he had a problem with that.

Christina Elmer: 00:27:50

Oh.

Marcos: 00:27:51

And it's like, okay, opposed to you, like, in my incident, I

Marcos: 00:27:54

thought like he's putting on a show, you could do it inside your head.

Marcos: 00:27:57

He called me out for not putting on a show.

Marcos: 00:28:00

But anyway, so I wasn't overly zealous in that regard.

Marcos: 00:28:03

Um, which I'm very thankful for looking back on it.

Marcos: 00:28:06

But now I'll fast forward.

Marcos: 00:28:07

So then, so kind of like what you're saying, I have found is actually the

Marcos: 00:28:12

opposite that because we are adults with agency, we can pick and choose

Marcos: 00:28:17

exactly what we want in our life and what we don't want in our life.

Marcos: 00:28:21

And that's really worked well for me.

Marcos: 00:28:23

So whether it be about spirituality, whether it be about religion, whether it

Marcos: 00:28:27

be about societal expectations, familial expectations, cultural norms, whatever

Marcos: 00:28:33

it might be, is you have to choose what works for you and take out what doesn't.

Marcos: 00:28:37

And so, like, regarding, like, spirituality and, like, religion, faith

Marcos: 00:28:42

is still very much important to me.

Marcos: 00:28:44

So I still pray regularly.

Marcos: 00:28:48

Technically, I still do pray the Mormon way.

Marcos: 00:28:51

I, that's just always the way I was taught.

Marcos: 00:28:52

It's worked for me.

Marcos: 00:28:53

And I sometimes I'll, I'll sometimes give slightly different openings

Marcos: 00:28:57

and closings, but for the most part, it's exactly how I was taught.

Marcos: 00:29:01

Just sometimes if I'm in a rush in my head, I may just

Marcos: 00:29:03

skip the openings and closings.

Marcos: 00:29:04

Um, however, I have expanded upon it to where.

Marcos: 00:29:09

when I was in my studies, I took a class on Guadalupe and I remember I was going

Marcos: 00:29:16

through a very hard time at that time and I remember saying a quick prayer to

Marcos: 00:29:23

Guadalupe as well, because I felt that she as a woman would be beneficial to

Marcos: 00:29:30

me as a gay man, and almost like she was like the goddess of the gays is kind of

Marcos: 00:29:33

how I saw it at that moment and that was helpful for me, um, to have that moment.

Marcos: 00:29:39

I think I prayed to her a couple of times and, you know, while I still

Marcos: 00:29:43

pray to God, you know, through Christ, the way we're taught in Mormonism.

Marcos: 00:29:47

I, you know, I pray to Guadalupe, I have tapped into ancestors, she would try to

Marcos: 00:29:52

ask for help with support and guidance and, you know, relatives who passed

Marcos: 00:29:56

on, uh, different things like that.

Marcos: 00:29:59

So through prayer candles, you know, my husband's Catholic, so, um, that kind

Marcos: 00:30:04

of coincides with the Guadalupe aspect.

Marcos: 00:30:08

Um, as well as I've always just enjoyed spiritual imagery.

Marcos: 00:30:12

So I have many like bracelets that have saints on them.

Marcos: 00:30:17

Um, things like that.

Marcos: 00:30:18

I just, wherever I can get strength and spirituality and guidance from

Marcos: 00:30:23

while I know many, much of organized religion can be very problematic.

Marcos: 00:30:27

Um, the whole colonial aspect, the whole Patriarchal, um, anti LGBTQ, I

Marcos: 00:30:35

know there's been a lot of destruction through, from religion throughout

Marcos: 00:30:37

the ages and still, but I feel, okay, there's also been a lot of good too,

Marcos: 00:30:42

like that sense of community, the sense of being there when people need

Marcos: 00:30:45

support, just the idea of faith and community, um, is really important to me.

Marcos: 00:30:50

So I try to pick and choose.

Marcos: 00:30:52

I don't participate in any organized religion anymore.

Marcos: 00:30:56

However, um, my husband and I have gone to, like, a parish

Marcos: 00:31:01

that was LGBTQ friendly.

Marcos: 00:31:03

We went there a couple times, um, when we were dating.

Marcos: 00:31:07

I am excited when I do drive by churches that have the rainbow flag in front of it.

Marcos: 00:31:11

So I'm like, at least there's somewhere if I want to go one Sunday,

Marcos: 00:31:14

I, there's somewhere I could go.

Marcos: 00:31:16

Um, just yesterday, I sent an email to a local church that showed

Marcos: 00:31:20

up as an ad on Facebook, and I asked, are you LGBTQ friendly?

Christina Elmer: 00:31:25

Oh.

Marcos: 00:31:27

I don't think they're going to respond, um, because that tells,

Marcos: 00:31:29

that gives me what I need to know.

Marcos: 00:31:31

But I think in the back of my mind, I do want somewhere to go if I feel

Marcos: 00:31:36

like I want to or feel like I need it.

Marcos: 00:31:38

but in the meantime, it's all about prayer to me and, um, just trying, I feel like

Marcos: 00:31:44

the importance of doing good for others.

Christina Elmer: 00:31:46

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:31:47

If there is an organized religion that I can find that they are inclusive,

Marcos: 00:31:52

like genuinely, sincerely inclusive, that they do just want to help build

Marcos: 00:31:57

community and help the overall community, there's something I'd be open to.

Marcos: 00:32:01

Um, I'm also open to learning about, you know, you mentioned about, you

Marcos: 00:32:06

asked if I had a Book of Mormon at home.

Marcos: 00:32:08

Um, we actually have a lot of spiritual texts at home.

Marcos: 00:32:11

So, um, so we have the Quran.

Marcos: 00:32:15

I think the only like, major one that comes to mind that

Marcos: 00:32:18

we don't have is the Torah.

Marcos: 00:32:20

But we have like the Quran, we have the Book of Mormon, we have the Bible,

Marcos: 00:32:24

we have, some Buddhist texts as well.

Marcos: 00:32:28

Christ is also so very important to me.

Marcos: 00:32:29

I couldn't ever give him up fully for me.

Marcos: 00:32:32

So it's like I was willing to add to him without taking him away.

Marcos: 00:32:36

Indigenous spirituality is very important to me as well.

Marcos: 00:32:38

Um, whether it be nature, ancestors, and just learning more about that

Marcos: 00:32:44

as well is very important to me.

Marcos: 00:32:45

Um, just because I sometimes think about, well, what did my

Marcos: 00:32:48

ancestors do, before Christianity was forced upon them, you know?

Marcos: 00:32:53

So things like that are very important to me as well.

Marcos: 00:32:57

Um, and with my identity and with Mexican folk religion in general, there

Marcos: 00:33:01

is a syncretism already of indigenous practices combined with Catholicism.

Marcos: 00:33:08

So I think that's something that really appeals to me as well.

Marcos: 00:33:11

So I'm very open.

Christina Elmer: 00:33:12

Yeah,

Marcos: 00:33:13

As well as at the same time, while trying to be respectful of those

Marcos: 00:33:16

who practice their religion, you know, religiously, um, including family members.

Marcos: 00:33:24

It's important to try to honor tradition, honor history, honor

Marcos: 00:33:29

present practices while still being true to yourself and knowing when you

Marcos: 00:33:32

need to set boundaries when others do try, um, putting that on you as well.

Christina Elmer: 00:33:38

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:33:39

It's beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:33:39

The thing that I, I got from that was just the, the ability to choose, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:33:45

The agency, which we taught as young Mormon kids is like, you know, agency

Christina Elmer: 00:33:49

is super important and Christ, you know, essentially gave his life

Christina Elmer: 00:33:53

for us that we could have agency.

Christina Elmer: 00:33:56

Um, unfortunately my own, with my own personal experience, um, agency

Christina Elmer: 00:34:01

feels different within Mormonism and um, coming outside of it.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:05

And I just, I saw this as you were explaining, um,

Christina Elmer: 00:34:10

your, being able to choose.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:12

Spirituality in your life and religion or, and how that works in your life, it's

Christina Elmer: 00:34:17

just being able to actually choose, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:34:19

You know, we actually get to choose for ourselves and how freeing that is to say,

Christina Elmer: 00:34:24

you know, I love aspects of Mormonism.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:26

I love aspects of Buddhism and, I can read from the Quran and take parts

Christina Elmer: 00:34:31

of it that I love or from Buddhist text or, you know, just being able

Christina Elmer: 00:34:35

to have that and to choose and say, I can actually do this for myself.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:41

Like, there's so much into being able to take back that power,

Christina Elmer: 00:34:46

which we didn't have that power.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:48

The power was taken from us, which we were made to believe that we

Christina Elmer: 00:34:53

had the power ultimately, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:34:55

Cause we have the Holy Ghost, the spirit in us.

Christina Elmer: 00:34:59

But when it came down to it, I didn't feel like I had that.

Marcos: 00:35:02

Mm hmm.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:03

And I don't know if you felt the same way, but sometimes

Christina Elmer: 00:35:06

I would get what I, what we would call a Mormonism inspiration.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:10

And I would be shut down and told, no, that's not actual, that's not true.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:14

But that we were also told that, you know, we could receive it for

Christina Elmer: 00:35:17

ourselves, but we'd necessarily couldn't receive it for...

Christina Elmer: 00:35:20

other people in a way, which you have with the organization, which necessarily

Christina Elmer: 00:35:24

we didn't need to do that, but sometimes like with children, for me, for example,

Christina Elmer: 00:35:28

like with my kids, like I would feel strongly about something and I would

Christina Elmer: 00:35:32

be told, well, that doesn't make any sense, you know, you're a woman,

Marcos: 00:35:35

Wow.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:36

It's like, you know, I, but I'm, I'm tapping into

Christina Elmer: 00:35:40

what I've been taught, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:35:42

And I'm trusting what I've been taught, but you're now telling me that I can't.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:47

Or even like, you know, serving within the Mormon church in different organizations

Christina Elmer: 00:35:51

and like, yes, you're given the opportunity, but ultimately, the Bishop

Christina Elmer: 00:35:55

is going to say, that's not going to work.

Christina Elmer: 00:35:57

And I was like, but I feel strongly about this, but

Marcos: 00:36:00

hmm.

Marcos: 00:36:00

Mm hmm.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:01

has the final say, which doesn't take the power out of it again.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:05

It's just so interesting, like navigating.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:08

Spirituality post Mormonism, it's just, you know, can I actually

Christina Elmer: 00:36:13

try that, you know, is that okay?

Christina Elmer: 00:36:15

Can I actually try that?

Christina Elmer: 00:36:16

Is that something that's allowed in something that, you know, I don't know

Christina Elmer: 00:36:20

if you tried it within Mormonism, just trying different spiritual things.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:24

Like, you know, my family in Japan are Buddhist and Shinto.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:27

And it always felt weird going to like a Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine

Christina Elmer: 00:36:32

where before, if you've been to Japan, where you wash your hands before you

Christina Elmer: 00:36:36

enter the sacred part of the temple you know, you clean your hands and then

Christina Elmer: 00:36:40

you go to a certain part of the temple and you throw in a coin and you like

Christina Elmer: 00:36:44

breathe in the smoke and allow it to cleanse you before you offer an offering.

Christina Elmer: 00:36:48

And as a young child that felt very irreverent and disrespectful to Mormonism

Christina Elmer: 00:36:55

But as an adult, like, as you have found with, you know, tapping into your

Christina Elmer: 00:36:59

family history and who you identify as a Chicano man, just like recognizing

Christina Elmer: 00:37:05

that that's a part of yourself, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:37:06

We can't, and being told that we have to sacrifice that part of myself to

Christina Elmer: 00:37:11

believe in just one being doesn't feel right because, well, what about me?

Christina Elmer: 00:37:17

You know, what about Marcos?

Christina Elmer: 00:37:18

What about Christina?

Christina Elmer: 00:37:19

And the years of tradition with our, with our family.

Marcos: 00:37:23

You shouldn't have to choose.

Christina Elmer: 00:37:25

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:37:25

And I feel like that's such a disservice and I feel like there could

Christina Elmer: 00:37:28

be beauty in both, tapping into the indigenous practices of your people

Christina Elmer: 00:37:34

and holding onto Christ as your savior.

Christina Elmer: 00:37:37

And I feel like being able to meld the two of those has so much more power for

Christina Elmer: 00:37:43

a person than just having one option.

Marcos: 00:37:46

I remember when we were growing up, there was a general conference

Marcos: 00:37:50

where, uh, one of the general authorities in his talk said that, if a cultural

Marcos: 00:37:57

practice is at odds with a church doctrine or policy, then you always

Marcos: 00:38:02

go with the church policy or doctrine.

Marcos: 00:38:05

And I remember some people being so excited about that.

Marcos: 00:38:08

Um, people who didn't look like us were very excited about that.

Marcos: 00:38:12

because, you know, they could see that there were some cultures that still

Marcos: 00:38:16

held on to their cultural beliefs and practices, and they felt it was at odds.

Marcos: 00:38:21

But to hear that was so frustrating.

Marcos: 00:38:23

Even, you know, being very devout and being in the church, hearing

Marcos: 00:38:27

that was very frustrating.

Marcos: 00:38:28

I was just like, that shouldn't happen.

Marcos: 00:38:31

Um, and I, this is something separate, not from my own culture, but I

Marcos: 00:38:35

remember at BYU, I took a yoga class.

Marcos: 00:38:38

I was so excited.

Marcos: 00:38:39

But I remember a family member kind of asking, cause they, that was before yoga

Marcos: 00:38:43

became what it became, mainstream, yeah.

Marcos: 00:38:47

I remember them asking about it, like it's, it's, how was that

Marcos: 00:38:51

coincide with like the church?

Marcos: 00:38:52

Because they saw like the religious, the spiritual aspect

Marcos: 00:38:54

of it, which I found interesting.

Marcos: 00:38:57

I'm like, well, why can't we incorporate that?

Marcos: 00:39:00

You know what I mean?

Marcos: 00:39:01

Why, why can't you do both?

Marcos: 00:39:03

has been a cultural practice for a very long time.

Marcos: 00:39:07

And why should that conflict with anything that the church is also teaching?

Christina Elmer: 00:39:11

Mormonism doesn't hold the, the exclusive rights to

Christina Elmer: 00:39:14

spirituality, you know, although we're led to believe that.

Christina Elmer: 00:39:18

But I, I feel like it's gotten just in the last couple years, they've been

Christina Elmer: 00:39:25

much more, um, less harsh with things.

Christina Elmer: 00:39:30

Like they just changed some of their policy in the way of like tattooing,

Christina Elmer: 00:39:34

you know, cause we have, we had friends, you know, that grew up,

Christina Elmer: 00:39:38

traditionally, you know, their families would have gotten tattooed, you know,

Christina Elmer: 00:39:43

and tattoos all over their body.

Christina Elmer: 00:39:44

Cause it was just a representation of other people, their

Christina Elmer: 00:39:47

culture, their heritage.

Christina Elmer: 00:39:49

And you know, it's segregating and cutting out a group of people that probably could

Christina Elmer: 00:39:55

benefit from some aspects of Mormonism.

Christina Elmer: 00:39:58

If you were to convert to the church, right, and you

Christina Elmer: 00:40:01

have tattoos, it's different.

Christina Elmer: 00:40:03

But being within Mormonism and having that be a part of your, tradition

Christina Elmer: 00:40:07

you know, centuries long to tattoo, you know, your devotion to God or

Christina Elmer: 00:40:12

whatever the representation might be.

Christina Elmer: 00:40:16

To have that be forbidden and to keep you from certain promises and within

Christina Elmer: 00:40:23

Mormonism feels, feels harsh, you know,

Marcos: 00:40:26

Oh, definitely.

Marcos: 00:40:27

Definitely.

Christina Elmer: 00:40:28

There's a lot to unpack, but, um, you know, you said

Christina Elmer: 00:40:31

that you still have a relationship with God or with, with Jesus.

Christina Elmer: 00:40:35

How has that evolved?

Christina Elmer: 00:40:36

Like, what does God look like to you now versus the God that we were taught about?

Christina Elmer: 00:40:40

Is it similar or has it evolved in some way based upon what you've told me of

Christina Elmer: 00:40:45

your, your current spiritual practices?

Marcos: 00:40:48

Great question.

Marcos: 00:40:49

Um, to be honest, I think it kind of depends at the moment

Marcos: 00:40:52

on the moment because...

Marcos: 00:40:54

I'm assuming you've experienced this too, you know, with Mormon, Mormonism

Marcos: 00:40:58

being such a culture and with things being embedded in you, there's some

Marcos: 00:41:02

things that will always remain, there's somewhere in your subconscious, right.

Marcos: 00:41:07

And they'll come out out of nowhere.

Marcos: 00:41:09

So I still have those moments that's like, oh, well, what if, right?

Marcos: 00:41:13

And it's like, okay, no, no, no, no.

Marcos: 00:41:14

We're not going down that path.

Marcos: 00:41:15

That's stop it.

Marcos: 00:41:17

Cause you know, it's just always going to be there and that's okay.

Marcos: 00:41:20

I see God as loving.

Marcos: 00:41:22

I think.

Christina Elmer: 00:41:23

Yeah,

Marcos: 00:41:23

God.

Marcos: 00:41:25

I know I say he, but I do believe that God does defy gender.

Marcos: 00:41:30

I definitely don't believe in a patriarchal.

Marcos: 00:41:37

racist, vengeful God.

Marcos: 00:41:41

And I definitely believe that science comes into play and evolution regarding

Marcos: 00:41:46

people's skin tone or eye shape or other facial features or stature.

Marcos: 00:41:52

Um, I don't feel it had anything to do with cursing, being cursed or

Marcos: 00:41:58

being a bad brother, whether we're talking biblical or Book of Mormon.

Marcos: 00:42:04

Um, so I definitely believe in a loving God that is there to

Marcos: 00:42:09

help you anytime you need it.

Marcos: 00:42:11

Um, and to help support you and along with that give you, provide intuition.

Marcos: 00:42:16

I do say universe a lot as well because I do believe that's something that

Marcos: 00:42:21

could also be inclusive of God, but also separate from God to where, like

Marcos: 00:42:25

you mentioned, energy and, and then, you know, manifestation and Karma, um,

Marcos: 00:42:32

I think it's all very much included.

Marcos: 00:42:35

But I would like to think that God's always there for me as he is for everyone.

Marcos: 00:42:39

And that's something that's hard to get to at times when you're

Marcos: 00:42:43

told that who you are is a sin.

Christina Elmer: 00:42:46

Yeah,

Marcos: 00:42:47

So I like to think that I've overcome that,

Christina Elmer: 00:42:51

Yeah.

Marcos: 00:42:53

It is hard because when you are growing up with that.

Marcos: 00:42:57

Um, there's a lot of feelings that come from it.

Marcos: 00:43:00

So, with Christ, I definitely feel like I pair him up with God.

Marcos: 00:43:06

But yeah, I mean, I, I don't feel something that's very specific.

Marcos: 00:43:09

I don't feel God has a checklist and this is something that

Marcos: 00:43:12

I realized a long time ago.

Marcos: 00:43:14

I don't think God's up there with a clipboard.

Marcos: 00:43:16

Saying did you do this?

Marcos: 00:43:18

Did you do that?

Marcos: 00:43:19

Did you not do this?

Marcos: 00:43:19

Did you not do that?

Marcos: 00:43:20

Okay, you're going here, you're going there.

Marcos: 00:43:22

Get out of here.

Marcos: 00:43:23

You're

Christina Elmer: 00:43:23

yeah, ugh,

Marcos: 00:43:25

I also believe that, for the most part, any sort of spiritual

Marcos: 00:43:28

practice or religion has something that you could take from it that would

Marcos: 00:43:31

be beneficial, that would be helpful that would help you to be a better

Marcos: 00:43:35

person, um, as well as the opposite.

Marcos: 00:43:38

Many have things that I wouldn't want to take from, or certain

Marcos: 00:43:41

aspects I wouldn't want to take from.

Christina Elmer: 00:43:43

yeah,

Marcos: 00:43:43

I still pray a lot, but when I was growing up Mormon, I prayed even

Marcos: 00:43:48

more, because I, I felt too, that I had less people to talk to about things.

Marcos: 00:43:55

Um, I was less open to talking to people about certain things.

Marcos: 00:43:59

To where now I do do, I use like my husband or close friends or to discuss

Marcos: 00:44:06

things with, uh, in addition to prayer.

Marcos: 00:44:08

So that has shifted.

Marcos: 00:44:10

Um, but I do know at the end of the day, prayer just gives me a lot of comfort.

Marcos: 00:44:14

Um, I combine it too with like meditation or like a mantra idea.

Marcos: 00:44:20

I just kind of lump it with that.

Marcos: 00:44:21

Um, and so I feel like between God and Christ and Ancestors and

Marcos: 00:44:26

Guadalupe and Saints and any other deities who are helping me, I do feel

Marcos: 00:44:31

that it's also with myself, right?

Marcos: 00:44:33

That positive self talk, is also being all combined to help me

Marcos: 00:44:38

with whatever I need help with.

Christina Elmer: 00:44:39

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:44:40

No, that's beautiful and it's perfect.

Christina Elmer: 00:44:42

I think.

Christina Elmer: 00:44:43

it's what you want it to be, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:44:46

Yeah, and I think that's beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:44:48

Ultimately, we get to decide, right?

Christina Elmer: 00:44:50

We're here to figure out what our soul's purpose is and the more, the more people

Christina Elmer: 00:44:56

we have on our team, on our spiritual team, I think the better, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:45:02

Well, two more questions, and then I think that, I know, because I feel

Christina Elmer: 00:45:06

like we could talk for hours and hours and hours, and it's, you know, there's

Christina Elmer: 00:45:10

nothing wrong with that, but I know that you, this is your day off, and you

Christina Elmer: 00:45:13

want to spend it with your sweetheart.

Christina Elmer: 00:45:14

Um, if you could go back in time and tell your 18 year old self at BYU,

Christina Elmer: 00:45:23

that, sweet, kind, bubbly, charismatic human that I love and I still love.

Christina Elmer: 00:45:30

You're still the same human.

Christina Elmer: 00:45:31

But if you could go back as, you know, your 40 year old self and tell him

Christina Elmer: 00:45:37

something, what would you tell him?

Marcos: 00:45:39

Ooh, that's a good one.

Marcos: 00:45:42

I would tell him that the rest of his life will not be what he expected.

Marcos: 00:45:49

That he's on the right path, even though it may not feel like it at

Marcos: 00:45:54

times, because it's so hard, but he's doing the right thing by trying to

Marcos: 00:46:00

figure himself out when he is, and he's going to meet people along the way.

Marcos: 00:46:08

That are gonna help him and provide support and he'll meet people

Marcos: 00:46:12

that he'll be able to help and provide support and that along

Marcos: 00:46:20

this process to not doubt himself.

Marcos: 00:46:23

Or when he is doubting himself, keep on walking because things

Marcos: 00:46:27

will get, eventually get easier.

Marcos: 00:46:30

And to not give up on himself.

Marcos: 00:46:33

To not give up on his path and to not give up on what he wants out

Marcos: 00:46:38

of life because just 'cause it might have a different timeframe.

Marcos: 00:46:44

It doesn't mean he's any less worthy of what's to come.

Marcos: 00:46:47

It doesn't mean he's anything to be ashamed of.

Marcos: 00:46:50

And even though relationships with others may be different than he would have

Marcos: 00:46:55

expected, whether he's loving them from afar or up close, the love is still there.

Marcos: 00:47:03

And even though he's going against many things that he is being taught at that

Marcos: 00:47:11

time, or when growing up, everyone's path is different and that's okay.

Marcos: 00:47:15

And at the end, the key is to be strive to be a good person, regardless

Marcos: 00:47:22

of what religion you're part of, regardless which church or temple

Marcos: 00:47:26

you find yourself is that just how you treat others is really important.

Marcos: 00:47:32

And at the end of the day, that's what matters more than anything else.

Marcos: 00:47:36

That is how you treat others.

Marcos: 00:47:38

And there might be moments where you might feel a little hardened.

Marcos: 00:47:43

And so it makes it a little bit harder to treat others how you want to treat them.

Marcos: 00:47:47

But you need to send a message to yourself, be true to yourself,

Marcos: 00:47:51

and be kind to others regardless of how they're being to you.

Christina Elmer: 00:47:55

Yeah,

Marcos: 00:47:55

It's up to them to figure out themselves.

Marcos: 00:47:59

You're not there to do that.

Marcos: 00:48:01

And hopefully by you being true to yourself will inspire

Marcos: 00:48:05

others to do that too.

Marcos: 00:48:07

Um, because this world, this society was not set up for people like

Marcos: 00:48:12

you, for us it's going to take additional strength to get to where

Marcos: 00:48:18

you want to, but you eventually will.

Marcos: 00:48:21

Um, and I think another reminder, it's not going to go according to plan.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:25

yeah.

Marcos: 00:48:26

And that's totally, totally okay.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:30

Marcos, that was so beautiful.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:34

You hear that, 18 year old Marcos?

Christina Elmer: 00:48:40

That sweet Latin dancing boy that had all the girls swooning.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:45

Like, really.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:47

I can name a couple.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:49

And I'm sure had boys swooning, too.

Christina Elmer: 00:48:51

They just were probably afraid, but...

Marcos: 00:48:55

We were living la vida loca,

Christina Elmer: 00:48:57

Hello, oh my god!

Christina Elmer: 00:49:02

Or, this, I mean, the song that came to mind was like, Bailamos.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:06

I mean, lots of Enrique iglesias.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:08

For sure.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:09

Lots and lots of Enrique iglesias.

Marcos: 00:49:12

With those chunky late 90s, early 2000s shoes.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:15

My God.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:16

We were just like, we were at our prime.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:19

I mean, we've gotten better now.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:21

We're still fabulous, but still like,

Marcos: 00:49:23

All those styles are back now.

Marcos: 00:49:24

All those styles

Christina Elmer: 00:49:25

I know.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:27

I know.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:31

Oh, Marcos, you are, you are something else, my love.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:36

Um, I have a feeling that that is going to help so many people, what

Christina Elmer: 00:49:43

you've gone through and the words that you spoke to your younger self.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:48

Thank you for being the strong, amazing, powerful human that you are.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:53

That's just blessing this world with your light.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:57

And your just like extreme empathy.

Christina Elmer: 00:49:59

Like you've always been that way.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:01

Just like Christina pause.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:02

Like, let's be nice, like you would always say that it's kind

Christina Elmer: 00:50:06

of mean, like Christina, be nice.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:07

I'm like, I don't want to be nice, but it's just, it's just, it's

Christina Elmer: 00:50:10

just always shown through you.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:11

Just that you're just this kind, kind, kind human being, and I just

Christina Elmer: 00:50:16

admire that about you so much.

Marcos: 00:50:20

I love you too.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:21

Yes, last question.

Christina Elmer: 00:50:23

What is something that you are grateful for today?

Marcos: 00:50:27

Ooh, I'm grateful for this opportunity.

Marcos: 00:50:31

I'm very grateful to have this conversation with you and to be able,

Marcos: 00:50:36

yeah, to be able to have this conversation about myself to you, with you, as

Marcos: 00:50:41

you're starting your own new journey.

Marcos: 00:50:44

It's so exciting.

Marcos: 00:50:46

I'm so happy for you.

Marcos: 00:50:47

So that's number one.

Marcos: 00:50:49

I'm thankful that, you know, it's so easy to get caught up in the daily grind.

Marcos: 00:50:55

And the daily grind awaits me later today.

Marcos: 00:50:58

Um, I have a lot of work to do.

Marcos: 00:51:01

But, you know, this conversation is a good reminder that I'm

Marcos: 00:51:05

lucky to have that work to do.

Marcos: 00:51:07

You know what I mean?

Marcos: 00:51:08

And so sometimes what can feel like a burden in the moment, it's

Marcos: 00:51:12

like you just have to check your privilege, remember your blessings,

Marcos: 00:51:16

and remember what you have to do.

Marcos: 00:51:17

So I am thankful that I have that work to do and that I'm able to do it.

Marcos: 00:51:21

Um, and to have opportunities.

Marcos: 00:51:23

And, you know, I'm also very thankful that I have love.

Marcos: 00:51:30

You know, I'm, I'm very, very thankful that I have love

Marcos: 00:51:32

to receive and love to give.

Marcos: 00:51:34

I think today those are some things that I, I would definitely be thankful for.

Marcos: 00:51:39

How about you,

Christina Elmer: 00:51:41

Oh, you're turning it on me.

Marcos: 00:51:42

You don't mind, I'll put you in the hot seat.

Christina Elmer: 00:51:44

Oh God.

Christina Elmer: 00:51:45

Here we go.

Christina Elmer: 00:51:46

Um, no, I'm also grateful for this experience and the time that

Christina Elmer: 00:51:50

you've taken to, to sit with little me and, um, to share your story.

Christina Elmer: 00:51:57

Our relationship has evolved, like we've, I feel like we've always been connected,

Christina Elmer: 00:52:00

but it hasn't been as intentionally intertwined as, as I would have liked,

Christina Elmer: 00:52:07

um, and I'm just grateful that you've accepted my proposition to have you share

Christina Elmer: 00:52:13

your story, the story that I've been curious about, um, for so long and not

Christina Elmer: 00:52:18

really having the bravery slash words to come to you and say, like, how do

Christina Elmer: 00:52:25

I, you know, I want to know more about.

Christina Elmer: 00:52:28

this time in your life that I wasn't a part of, you know?

Christina Elmer: 00:52:33

And that I'm very curious about and, I feel like we could have more

Christina Elmer: 00:52:36

conversations about this and maybe we'll have to turn it into another,

Christina Elmer: 00:52:39

another episode at some point.

Christina Elmer: 00:52:41

But just, know, I'm, I'm curious more about, like, I don't

Christina Elmer: 00:52:46

have a lot of language for...

Christina Elmer: 00:52:48

you know, how people identify, you know, like I'm still learning a lot

Christina Elmer: 00:52:53

about even just within the spectrum of the LGBTQ plus community, and even

Christina Elmer: 00:52:57

within like how we identify, culturally and traditionally, like, you know, our

Christina Elmer: 00:53:02

ancestors, ancestrally, you know, like, what's the difference between Latin

Christina Elmer: 00:53:06

and Chicano and are they the same?

Christina Elmer: 00:53:08

Just like so much that, but I'm grateful that you've, you're teaching me and I'm

Christina Elmer: 00:53:13

grateful for this learning experience to, to have that with one of the best, I

Christina Elmer: 00:53:17

consider one of the best teachers because you're just so gentle and warm and I'm

Christina Elmer: 00:53:21

sure that any question that someone would, would approach you with that you

Christina Elmer: 00:53:25

would just come at it with such grace and openness and kindness that it would

Christina Elmer: 00:53:30

be very easy to be able to connect with you and ask some of the hard questions.

Christina Elmer: 00:53:34

So I am grateful for the time that you've taken to sit with me and to

Christina Elmer: 00:53:38

teach me about, things that you've, you've learned and experienced and,

Christina Elmer: 00:53:44

um, I'm grateful for the universe just kind of opening this path for me.

Christina Elmer: 00:53:50

Um, it's scary as hell.

Marcos: 00:53:53

Mm-hmm.

Christina Elmer: 00:53:54

Um, but I, I really want to be able to share stories like yours.

Christina Elmer: 00:54:00

Cause I, I know that it helps so many people and, um, just

Christina Elmer: 00:54:05

being able to have conversations.

Christina Elmer: 00:54:07

There's not really a, a space to do it sometimes, you know, I feel maybe that's

Christina Elmer: 00:54:13

just my own personal shit that I'm like, Oh God, I, how do I have a conversation

Christina Elmer: 00:54:18

with a friend and ask them some stuff that I should have been curious about years

Christina Elmer: 00:54:23

ago, but you know, that's my own shadow, but, um, yeah, I just, I, I want to be

Christina Elmer: 00:54:29

able to be more authentic and say, hey, I may or may not have fucked up at some

Christina Elmer: 00:54:34

point and I want to be better and I want to know more about, about you as a person.

Christina Elmer: 00:54:41

So I'm grateful for you taking the time to do that.

Christina Elmer: 00:54:45

So thank you.

Marcos: 00:54:46

Well, thank you.

Marcos: 00:54:47

I appreciate that.

Marcos: 00:54:48

Thank you again for having me here, and for caring enough

Marcos: 00:54:51

and do wanna know my story.

Marcos: 00:54:52

Because, once again, I feel like it's so easy to make assumptions or for

Marcos: 00:54:57

people to draw their own conclusions.

Marcos: 00:54:59

Like, from the outside if they weren't there at my side

Marcos: 00:55:01

during those tumultuous years.

Marcos: 00:55:03

So I appreciate you caring and wanting to know and letting me share.

Marcos: 00:55:07

So, um, thank you.

Marcos: 00:55:09

And once again, best of luck on this new journey for you.

Marcos: 00:55:11

I know you're going to be fabulous.

Marcos: 00:55:13

And, um, I look forward to tuning in.

Marcos: 00:55:17

So Thank you.

Marcos: 00:55:18

again.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:18

Thank you.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:20

Yeah.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:22

Well, that's the first episode, y'all.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:24

I appreciate you being here with us.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:26

And thank you, Marcos, for just being the ultimate first guest and

Christina Elmer: 00:55:31

just being an absolute delight.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:34

Thank you so much for listening today and allowing us to be a part of your day.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:39

If you'd like more information on leaving in color or to be a guest on

Christina Elmer: 00:55:42

our show, please reach out to us on Instagram at leavingincolor.pod or

Christina Elmer: 00:55:47

email us at leavingincolorpod@gmail.com.

Christina Elmer: 00:55:52

If this episode resonated with you in any way or made you think of a loved one

Christina Elmer: 00:55:56

or a friend, please tell them about it.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:00

Your support generates more abundance collectively, so please

Christina Elmer: 00:56:03

subscribe to Leaving in Color wherever you listen to podcasts.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:07

Like all beautifully crafted pieces, this podcast was created

Christina Elmer: 00:56:11

by the most talented humans.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:13

Our music is by the melodic master, Tucker Winters.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:18

Our lovely, beautiful art is by the multifaceted Jen of

Christina Elmer: 00:56:22

all trades, Jen Cagle Gilmore.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:25

Leaving in Color is masterfully produced in conjunction

Christina Elmer: 00:56:28

with Particulate Media, K.O.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:30

Myers, executive producer.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:33

And I am Christina Elmer.

Christina Elmer: 00:56:35

See you soon.